This is the third in an exceptional interview series by Mugiko Ozaki, on Twitter @ozaki_mugiko, for Sportiva. Mayu can speak in a kind of roundabout or vague way, and used more wrestling slang than Mina and Tam combined, so translating this interview was a unique challenge and I learned a lot. Once again huge thanks to @1222DragonMoon on Twitter for double checking my translation and providing some feedback and clarification, as well as being enough of a Mayu expert to figure out what on Earth she was talking about in some sections where we were both stumped. A quick note that Ozaki writes her interviews in the first person, and while I did the other two as summaries where I described what she says, I’ve enjoyed her writing so much that from this point I’ve mostly translated her writing as she wrote it. I switched between first and third person a couple times out of habit though, I don’t think it should be too confusing but apologies if it throws anyone off.
Part 1
From shut-in to genius. Mayu Iwatani originated from daydreams.
“Yes, I understand. That’s right… First thing tomorrow morning… Sorry, right now I’m at Nippon Budokan…. Yeahhh, for pro wrestling….
After hanging up the phone, I rushed towards the venue. Why is it that I only get requests for manuscript revisions at times like this! Frustrated, I tried to find the Southeast gate, but thanks to my utterly lacking sense of direction, I had no hope of finding it. I wonder what match they’re on…. Due to the ongoing Coronavirus pandemic fans aren’t allowed to cheer, so I have no idea what’s going on inside. I hope I manage to make it in time….
When I finally made it, the venue was completely silent.
The next moment, that person flew from the top rope. She gracefully bends her tall, slender body backwards, higher, higher! ……What a beautiful Moonsault!
1, 2, 3–!
She thrusts her fist in the air as the referee raises her arm. She won! Mayu Iwatani is the winner! For a while I stood completely still, tears running down my face.”
—
When she arrived at the interview a few weeks later, she was wearing a black leather jacket, giving off a rockstar vibe. Her back was a little bent and she was idly staring at the ground. I called out to her “Wow, you have great style” and she looked up cheerfully and said, “Oh I just came from eating ramen so I feel like my stomach is super bloated,” and bashfully rubbed her belly.
The “Icon of Stardom” Mayu Iwatani. Winner of the 2019 Women’s Wrestling Award and now called the “Icon of women’s wrestling.” She’s also referred to as a “technician” thanks to her universally recognized skill at taking her opponent’s moves in the ring. In my last interview, Tam Nakano called her a “wrestling genius” and nominated her as the strongest wrestler.
“Myself, I think I am a genius. I think I’m not going to lose to any female wrestler when it comes to bumping and getting beat up.”
The only wrestler still in Stardom from their first generation of wrestlers. It’s hard to imagine now that when she debuted 10 years ago she was called “clumsy” or considered to be behind the rest of her class. However, when I watched her debut, it was clear that she definitely was clumsy.
“You know they called me Ultraman. I’d run out of stamina three minutes into a match and be completely exhausted for the rest. I didn’t have the power to fight back, and I was always getting beaten. I don’t think I won a single match for about a year after my debut.”
I thought that must have taken a lot of effort, but she laughs and says “I didn’t put in any effort.” She hated practise and was always skipping it until one day one of her senior wrestlers lost their patience.
She was ordered to spar for 90 minutes, until she was so tired she couldn’t move, and they shouted at her “Get down on your knees and apologize! Swear you’ll never skip another day in your life!”
“I said to them “I’m sorry, I’ll never skip again!” and then I skipped the next day. Because after such an intense practise you want to take the day off, right? I worked hard the day before so I figured that was good enough.”
Is that really okay, a person like that…. I nervously asked her “do you still skip practise?” and she immediately responded “No, not at all.” I felt relieved until she continued “I don’t conceive of it as slacking any more. If I don’t want to do it I just won’t go, that’s not skipping.” she said it so confidently I almost fell out of my chair.
“I don’t need to practise to be able to wrestle. If I can 100% accurately imagine myself doing a move, then I can do it perfectly in a match as well.”
Mayu has been sidelined by a torn ligament in her knee before. Her return match was a week after she got her cast off. When she posted rehab videos on Twitter fans got really concerned, but she sees it as part of her job as a wrestler to show that she’s okay when she’s in the ring.
“That’s why I started doing the moonsault. Moonsaults wreck everyone’s knees, you know. So I thought I’d turn things around, show my knee was fine by doing a moonsault. I’d never done one before, but I could picture doing it in my mind. But you know, I couldn’t even do backflips or back somersaults. Ahahaha.”
Ozaki sees this as no laughing matter. If she messed up, she’d be putting her life in danger. A chill runs down her spine at Mayu’s reckless genius.
Mayu was born Feb. 19th, 1993 in Mine City in Yamaguchi Prefecture. Her hometown was so rural that it was a 40 minute walk from her house to the nearest convenience store. She lived with her father, mother, and two brothers, one six years older than her and one three years older. She was always mischievous as a child, but when she entered junior high, she became mischievous in a different way. Her mom was getting called to school all the time.
She dropped out of high school in her 1st year. She was also undergoing a number of difficulties due to a complex situation regarding other people and became a shut-in. In the 2 years she spent as a shut-in, she only went outside 3 times. Even those 3 times, she only went into the yard to look at the sky, she never set foot past that.
“At first, I was a shut-in because I was scared. I was traumatized, I’d have nightmares about it and stuff like that. I was so scared every day, it felt like I was hiding in my house. But over time it faded, and eventually I started to read manga and sort of fantasize while staring at the ceiling. After that, I entered the impatient phase. At that point all of my classmates were going to university or finding jobs, and I started to wonder what would be next for me.
Ozaki says there was a time she was also depressed and reclusive. She spent day after day staring at the ceiling. She’s surprised Mayu can talk about something like this so cheerfully. From this point, Ozaki recounts their exact conversation.
Ozaki: I know what you mean with those three stages, fear, fading, and impatience.
Mayu: It has distinct stages, you know?
O: I still stare at the ceiling like that.
M: I do too!! I’m still a really indoor person, if I can help it I don’t want to take one step outside.
O: What would you fantasize about while you were staring at the ceiling?
M: You know, like falling in love with a celebrity. I like Johnny’s, and at the time, specifically Arashi. [Note: Johnny’s is a talent agency that specializes in male talent, and Arashi is one of their groups. Think kind of like idols but men.] I was a Nino (Kazunari Ninomiya) fan.
O: I liked Nino too!! Did you ever read dream novels? (A dream novel is like fiction on the web that lets you set the character names to whatever you want, so you can sort of create your own fan fiction or self-insert just by putting in names.)
M: I did!! I’d always set the name to “Mayu” and read it like it was about me. Ah, that totally takes me back!
O: Was it wrestling that brought you out of being a shut-in?
M: Yeah. One day my brother and I got in a fight about what to watch on TV, and I lost, and he’s a wrestling fan so he put wrestling on. I really did *not* like it, but as I was eating dinner I couldn’t stop watching it, and I was thinking “What the hell is this?!” It was a Dragon Gate show, it was really fast-paced and I was thinking “wow, I can’t believe people can do stuff like this!” Until then I hadn’t even known there was a sport called pro wrestling, but just like that I was instantly hooked. That was when my daydreams started to change.
O: How did they change?
M: Until then it was just mainly unrealistic romance stuff, but then I started to fantasize about myself as a pro wrestler. What moves would I use, what would my costume look like, stuff like that. I bought a CD of Dragon Gate entrance music and I would imagine that it was my entrance music. So while that was going on, my brother invited me to a wrestling show. That was the first time I went out in a really long time.
O: I’m sure your brother was really happy.
M: You think so? I figure he never would have thought his little sister would get hooked on pro wrestling. When we went our seats were in the front row, at the very end, by the aisle. I know I really wasn’t supposed to, but I got so into it that I started touching the wrestlers as they went past, and I was truly hooked on wrestling.
O: It seems rare these days to see a woman debut in wrestling purely because she loves it so much.
M: Yeah a lot of women that start nowadays look like they could be actresses, and they say they’ve never watched wrestling before. I’m not talking about myself, but just in general, the way you move, the way you think about it, everything is different between someone who started wrestling because they love it and someone who didn’t.
O: And I guess that’s why you improved so quickly.
M: So when we’re taught a move in practice, like for example a bodyslam, I think people who don’t watch wrestling wouldn’t know where to put their hands, they don’t have that understanding. But someone who likes wrestling and is watching it every day can visualize mentally like “oh, that’s the move that one guy does” or “oh, that’s how they do that move”. It’s totally different.
O: You remind me a bit of Kota Ibushi. Ibushi also said “If I can 100% visualize a move in my head, I can do it.”
M: I guess there are lots of people I could be compared to, right? I get told I’m like Ibushi-san a lot, and Liger-san says I’m like Okada. In terms of my role in the company, I think I’m a bit like Tanahashi. I wonder which one is really the closest?
O: It seems like there are a lot of ways you’re like male wrestlers.
M: When I debuted, there was a specific way for women to take bumps, and I absolutely hated that style. I was like “Huh? What’s up with the way she’s getting hit? This sucks!” From that point on, I didn’t want anyone teaching me how to wrestle, I just did the kind of wrestling that I watched and that I liked, and then people would talk about me like “The bumps she takes are really crazy. How is she not getting hurt?”
O: It seems like most female wrestlers don’t take moves any differently from men now, do you think any of that has been from your influence?
M: I’m proud to say I’m the one who revolutionized bumping in women’s wrestling. When Fuka was in charge, she’d tell the newer trainees “just copy what Mayu does”, and when Io-san wrote her column she said “No one bumps better than Mayu Iwatani.” I’m really proud of that.
O: Who do you like now in men’s wrestling?
M: Oh the past few years I haven’t watched any at all. I like to watch my own matches because I feel like I’m a complete wrestler, or at least like, I’m becoming the wrestler that I want to be. Now I can actually be the person I imagined myself to be when I was a shut-in. I didn’t think I’d be able to make it this far, but…
O: If you could meet yourself when you were a shut-in, what would you say to yourself?
M: You’re gonna be able to figure out your life!
Mayu is such a positive person…. She’s very cheerful and bright, but as an interviewer, Ozaki wants to bring out her “darkness” somehow. As the interview progressed, she was beginning to get impatient.
In 2010, Mayu saw an ad recruiting wrestlers for Stardom. She contacted Fuka who was GM at the time and decided to move from Yamaguchi to Tokyo.
M: My family didn’t approve, I was basically a runaway. I only had 6000 yen. [~$55 US] Fuka-san talked to Ogawa-san, who was the company president, and he agreed to pay for my trip. But…
O: I’ve heard that story before. You bought some souvenirs and were down to only 3000 yen, right?
M: I was thinking, “Well they’re going to be taking care of me from now on, so I should bring them like a present or something…”
O: And from there you ended up staying with Rossy Ogawa because you didn’t have your own place, were you at all hesitant about staying with a much older man who you’d never met before?
M: Not in the slightest. I was completely clueless. I had never even had a part-time job, so I had no common sense about stuff like that at all. It was just like, “This is a strange older man. I am going to stay at his house. I start practise tomorrow, so I’ll do my best. But I have no money, so mister, please buy me some food.” Another time I was like, “Mister, you don’t have a washing machine, what do I do?” and he did my laundry for me at the laundromat. I had no idea even what kind of person Rossy Ogawa was. I was just making the boss wash my underwear and everything. He’s honestly very kind, that old guy. (She laughs)
O: Did they think you showed a lot of promise?
M: They thought I was going to quit immediately.
O: I’ve heard that you’re planning on looking after Rossy when he gets older.
M: I had said that, but now I guess I don’t have to. When he passes away I’ll just place his ashes in the Stardom dojo.
O: Terrible. (She laughs) But as we were discussing, were you anxious at all before you moved to Tokyo?
M: Absolutely not. I had nothing else. At that point I was like, if I remain a shut-in like this I’ll have no job, no hope, no reason to live, no one would need me. I was thinking, “this is my only chance, as long as I go to Tokyo I could get murdered immediately and at least I did that much.” I figured if I stayed in my home town then dying was all I had to look forward to anyway. So I thought it was better than not going.
O: Your one chance, even if you got killed, wow….. When you made your debut, you were called a klutz, but despite that at the merch tables afterward you were the most popular by a lot, is that right?
M: Yeah, right from the day I debuted it was incredible. Like, does everyone want to root for the loser? I think they were looking at me like they were my parents. I got comments like “You worked so hard out there!” or “Wow, you could do a dropkick!” I think back then, fans were used to watching established wrestlers very comfortably without worrying, but I wanted to keep the fans excited and engaged the whole time. While they watch my match I want them to be thinking “Huh? Is she hurt?” or “Is she going to be able to finish the match? Is she okay?” I really really wanted to move them emotionally.
O: I love the story about the time you were absent from a show, and Fuka tried to apologize to a fan because you weren’t there, but the fan turned it around and apologized to her instead, that’s so nice.
M: Actually, I didn’t just miss that show…. I overslept.
O: WHAT?!
M: Yeah I overslept and missed the bus for the tour, and I couldn’t get in contact with anyone, so they just did the show without me. I was like “Oh shit, I overslept!” but then I figured, well it was too late to get to the show on time anyway, so I thought “Ah, it’ll be fine. I’m going back to sleep.” There was another show the next day, but I felt too awkward to see everyone and I didn’t want them to be mad at me, so I didn’t get in contact with them for that one either. Then I saw on the Stardom Twitter that they’d announced the card had been changed, and I was like “Ah, I guess I’m absent now.” But I did at least go to the venue. Very responsible of me, don’t you think?
O: Oooh yes, very impressive! That wasn’t the only time you disappeared either, and in 2016, you declared you were “quitting to become a pet groomer.” But that year you won three championships (Artist of Stardom, Goddess of Stardom, and High-Speed) and you were doing well, weren’t you?
M: Yeah, I was feeling good. I’m actually not really sure why I wanted to quit that time…. I made the rounds at the venue and spoke to everyone. I was like “Oh by the way, I’m quitting at the end of this month” and everyone was like “wh-what?!” “Yeah, I’m going to become a pet groomer. Thank you for everything, sorry for all the trouble I’ve caused, I owe you so much.” I said my goodbyes very properly. But, y’know, then I was still there at the next show…..
O: So it seems like you were in a bit of a slump, weren’t you?
M: I wouldn’t say a slump necessarily. It was just like, it’s a hassle, I’ve had enough, it’s too hard. I think maybe for a slump, I’d be more justified if I were to feel like that these days. Like, since I lost the red belt, I haven’t had a title, and I’ve been losing a lot.
O: And have you felt like quitting this time?
M: I don’t think about it any more. I think if I were to retire I’d want to do everything very properly and have it go very smoothly. But back then I thought it was fine to just be like “I’m retired now” on Twitter.
O: Yeah you should definitely not do that. Once I joked “I’m quitting writing” on Twitter and I got insanely angry responses from all kinds of people. And then when I took it back right away, they got insanely angry about that too. I didn’t know how to make it better….
M: Oh shit, we’re so alike (laughs)
O: We seem like the same person! You said you’ve “watched hours of your own matches” and I’m like that too. I’ve probably spent hours reading my own articles too.
M: I’d watch the same thing over and over for like, 5 or 6 hours. Keep watching the 15 second clip, over and over. It just feels like instant stress relief.
O: But coming from you, that means you like watching yourself get beat up over and over……. In a way, that’s almost perverted….
M: Well it feels really good trying to view it objectively. When you reach the point where it’s like “How can she keep going, is she okay?!” and you manage to make a comeback, that feels incredibly good. I think feeling like that does kind of make me a pervert for pro wrestling. I really never want to spoil my opponent’s technique. I have a strong feeling that that attitude is what lets me take my opponent’s moves in the most spectacular way.
O: Is that what you meant when you recently said, leading up to your match with Yoshiko, that you wanted to take your opponents to “the other side of their limits”?
M: Yeah, I think Yoshiko-chan and I suit each other well. There’s a six year period where neither of us watched the other person’s matches at all. So in a situation like that, for our chemistry to be so good, your feelings about each other need to be really really…. (with tears in her eyes) like, I think a lot of like, compassion, or…. I just know it felt amazing.
Today I’m fairly far along in my career in Stardom, so most of the people I fight are my juniors. But Yoshiko-chan is from the same generation I am, and I really really didn’t want to lose, and it’s been a while since I got seriously beaten to a pulp, it was just so, so fun. I was feeling like “Aaahh yeah, this is pro wrestling!!”
O: After the match you said “I want to taste the future with you,” does that mean you want to fight her again?
M: I think what I’d like is if I could get together with Yoshiko-chan and Takumi Iroha at some kind of huge, festival-like show. Right now I don’t particularly care to focus on being in a tag team. But, because we’re the ones leading women’s wrestling, I think everyone would want to see a triple-threat like that. Doesn’t that sound interesting? But they’re both not active right now, so I’m thinking of the timing of like, their return, or some sort of special commemorative show. I don’t care if it’s not just a Stardom show, or if I were to make an appearance in a different company. I have to have that kind of match that everybody will want to watch.
O: I would definitely want to see a 3-way between Takumi Iroha, Yoshiko, and Mayu Iwatani!
M: I want to do it, and then I really want to watch it too.
O: In this series of interviews, we explore the question of “what is strength?” So what is strength to Mayu Iwatani?
M: It’s about being your truest self. Like, I just cannot be cool. I didn’t create the character Mayu Iwatani. Other wrestlers are trying to show themselves as strong, but I’m just trying to show myself as I am. My motto is “Somehow, it’ll be fine.” Even if I’m like “Crap well this is just terrible,” somehow it’ll be fine!
O: And please, if you could nominate the next strongest wrestler.
M: Oh it’s me, I’m the best, I’m the strongest.
O: (laughs) No one’s given me that answer since Kento Miyahara from All Japan (in Ozaki’s previous interview series, which was the same question but for male wrestlers.)
M: Ahahaha! Weeellll, I guess because she took the red belt from me, I’d have to say Utami Hayashishita. She got a lot of attention at first because she’s Big Daddy’s daughter [Note: Utami’s Dad is a former reality TV Star who goes by Big Daddy. Utami and her family were on TV for several years in a reality show bc Utami has 11 siblings] so in some ways her name was out there ahead of her, but she’s really improved and now she’s fully the wrestler known as Utami Hayashishita. For someone who’s only been wrestling for 2 and a half years, I think she’s simply incredible. She’s the kind of person who never shows when she’s under pressure, and I find that very intriguing and amazing. Please be as nosey as possible with her.
O: I’m on it!
M: I’m looking forward to it!
Ozaki writes that throughout the interview, she had wanted to find the darkness in Mayu. She assumed that in the depths of everyone’s heart, there is some darkness. She thinks maybe there’s some truth to that, but as she watched Mayu speak and laugh with “a smile as bright as the sun,” she started to feel like wanting to “bring out her darkness” was an arrogant, stupid idea.
For Mayu, strength is about showing who you truly are. Ozaki figures that since Mayu is like that, she should continue to support her and write about her as she truly is. Mayu’s bottomless cheerfulness and beautiful Moonsault freed Ozaki’s frozen heart.
The next interview will be with Utami Hayashishita.
Shine Today, Believe Tomorrow 